Joh. W. Matutis prophecy deleted in General Discussion Forum

Author	Comment
MarkLwrnc	Joh. W. Matutis prophecy deleted	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1898 Feb 13 10 6:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Hey Nathan, this sounds like a word from God, but I'm going to delete this prophecy because of something else apparently sent by the author (Joh. W. Matutis) in recent weeks. The reason is this same pastor sent out a prophecy a number of weeks back, claiming that anyone who received a swine flu virus would be injected with demons. If I remember right, a person's salvation was in danger. This of course goes against the Word of God, and after that prophecy I decided that the safe thing to do was to right off this pastor as a false prophet. The Bible tells us that nothing can "snatch us" out of God hands. Our salvation is completely secure in Jesus Christ (if we're true to the faith). So, that pastor claiming that he had a word from God, about demons being injected via the swine flu vaccine, sent up red flags for me. In the Bible false prophets were / are convincing. There's a story in the Old Testament about God sending a false prophet to test a true prophet. The true prophet believed the false prophet, and so God killed the true prophet. With stories like that, it seems that we should be very vigilant about not having anything to do with false prophets. I prefer to just play it safe now and not correspond with Pastor Joh. W. Matutis, author of the message above. So, that's why I've deleted this. Please consider the things I'm sharing here. Love in Christ,
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Nathan		#1	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 14 10 10:18 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ok Mark...I am fine with that. Do I personally agree? Well... no I dont and I will for the most part leave it at that. If you look at the words of this swine flue stuff, you will see that there is a future fulfillment to come. Not an immediate manifestation here. Do I believe he is wrong? Actually I think there is issues of obedience involved here that you are forgetting knowing that dissobedience is trully what leads to demonic opression on the Lords own people and believe you are examining his words in the wrong way. The bible warns us to not let satan have a foothold. This is allowed because of decisions with personal issues of obedience to a spoken word from the Lord to our own hearts declairing the direction one(individually) must follow by faith. So my friend, it is what it is, but I personally believe that if you dissregard this man as a false prophet, the trully humble of the earth who is still bound in this fleshly broken body who is striving to be pleasing to the Lord, we might as well just give up on this thing called christianity my friend. This man is the example of humility and if we fall into judgement against him, is God really trying to adress the simple issues we also have fallen short of? I think there is reason for fear here in ourselves if we disregard him. Thats my opinion and my heart. Your free to dissagree with this and thats fine. I want to dissagree with love. But there is only so much I can take of this so called 'false prophet' stuff when we are absolutely no better. Last Edited By: Nathan Feb 14 10 2:07 PM. Edited 3 times.
stoning of stephen		#2	[-]
Posts: 166 Feb 15 10 4:12 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mark, it seems that fear is a part in your life. Andrews messages are true for the most part, but when he goes off telling mankind what a revival should only be like, and if the power of God hits someone who is controled by shaking, that its of the devil, then Andrew is coming directly against the Holy Spirit. That my friend is a dangerous place to be in. I would examine your ties with Andrew, and ask yourself how much of your decisions are put into Andrews words. If Andrew saw me when God's annointing hits my body, he would say I have that kundali spirit, or whatever he calls it. But remember, satan in the counterfeit, so he replicates what God does. I do not have any other spirit, but the Holy Spirit, and I come only unto submission to the Holy Spirit, so if God wants to anoint myself in those ways, when someone says it's of the devil, then they are blaspheming the Spirit of God. again, dangerous grounds. David Wilkerson was just hammered upon for his words given about a year ago about people should be stocking up on supplies because of current events to come. it hasn't happened yet, but it is coming. if people want to disregard God's warnings oh well, they will wish they had headed those words. Just as you are discrediting the words of pastor Joh, oh well, you will wish you hadn't also. fear is the controling factor in this.
MarkLwrnc		#3	[-]
Posts: 1898 Feb 15 10 10:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Stephen, the fear I have, is fear of God and his Word. With care, please understand that I don't know pastor Joh. W. Matutis, I only get a message sent to me by email from time to time. I can't change what was written in that message: he said God told it to him. What are we supposed to do? The Bible says to "test everything". Please ask yourself... are you testing everything? When I tested his message, about the swine flu vaccine actually being a cover for demon injections and one's salvation being at risk (if I remember right), in my opinion that did not pass the test. I've prayed about that then and I just prayed about it again now, and stephen, it my opinion it still doesn't pass the test. I'm not trying to cause division; you are all allowed to believe whatever you want to believe. But I don't want to be deceived by false prophecy. Is being over-vigilant a bad thing when there is so much deception in the world? Please note that I don't reject all prophecy I read... just some. I'm sorry that you both feel strongly about Joh. W. Matutis. I still love you guys and readily admit that i could be wrong. But I'm not going to let either of you, or even my own wife or mother, convince me of that. I need it said to me by the Holy Spirit, and right now, if it's the spirit leading me, I don't want to read any of Joh. W. Matutis prophecy. He already failed the test once. I say this in the sight of God. God knows my heart, and knows why I reject Joh. W. Matutis now. I love the Lord and tremble at his Word. That's what the Bible tells me to do. That's what the Bible tells all of us to do. I have one question now... if Joh. W. Matutis is releasing prophecy, and claiming that anyone who receives a swine flu shot is actually being injected with demons, is this a true prophecy or a false prophecy? When I read the Bible, it's unrepentant sin and a lack of faith and love for God that is dangerous to salvation. Not a swine flue shot... I say all this with care and I'm praying that God will open all of our hearts to true understanding. ------ Regarding Lakeland and the Kundilini spirit Andrew Strom has been giving warnings about, many months before this I personally wrote many warnings myself about Todd Bentley and his ministry. I don't remember all the details and I would have to go back and research old posts, but it's not the physical presence of the Holy Spirit that shouted "false prophet" to me; but it did raise my eyebrows, and make me want to look deeper into Bentley's ministry... and it's when I looked deeper that I saw / heard things via YouTube videos and on Bentley's own website that made me conclude strongly that he was a false prophet. Stephen, with care I say whatever you experienced may have been the real thing. Only God knows that for sure. Please let me know if you want me to re-research Lakeland and start posting evidence that has made many Christians dismiss them (Bentley / Lakeland) as false prophets. For you, I will gladly do it. Love in Christ,
stoning of stephen		#4	[-]
Posts: 166 Feb 16 10 3:57 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Mark, I don't have issues with this revival, and that revival, and the leaders that were present, because I believe also as you, things in Todd's life/ministry went wrong. And I pray that he humbles himself, repents of sin and restored, although damage has been done. it's not about revivals and these teachers that may have started out on the right accord and then gone astray, its about Andrews words saying this is of God, and this is of the devil. He probably has good intentions, but what he's doing is blaspheming God by calling that which is done of His Spirit, of the devil. Do you understand the dangers of this, telling God's Holy Spirit that He's satan? God is not limited to His Word, He cannot go against it, but if God was limited to His Word, then He wouldn't be the God of tomorrow. I was warned in a dream also about that vaccination, and for some it may not apply, but for me and my family, I know that I know I was not to take that shot. The body of Christ has become to lack and sleepy, they don't even realize they are in such a pitiful state. When one comes to that point, they are open to demonic infiltrations. Time will tell what happens to those that have. Mark please condsider this, what happened to the Israelites when they forsook God? judgement came, because of their sins. their enemy's were allowed to attack and oppress. and when they returned to Him, only then did He restore. Please ask yourself... are you testing everything? absolutely Mark, if one doesn't then there's a danger of falling astray. Again I would use caution with ties with Andrew, because there's a quenching to his ministry. Last Edited By: stoning of stephen Feb 16 10 4:23 AM. Edited 1 times.
Nathan	Mercy or judgement?	#5	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 16 10 4:38 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mark brother..... I think you seriously need to start examining yourself here my friend. You need to start examining those who you follow that give you this kind of confidence that shows you that you have the right to label someone else a false prophet. I am telling you straight out brother, there has been given this permission to no one in the whole bible at all. No one. Not even Jesus called people false prophets brother and out of anyone, he had this right. Jesus told the pharasees that He had much to condemn them on but yet he told them to go learn mercy brother. What are you doing Mark???? You are judging the presence of the Holy Spirit in someone elses lives but not even allowing for mercy brother. Its time someone state it like it is my friend. You are looking for perfection my friend that you are not going to find in the flesh. With this kind of apraoch, I cant believe you havent dissed Andrew Strom yet. This man is presenting a gospel of condemnation on those who he does not agree with Mark. Cant you see that yet??? Cant you see that yet Mark? You need to open your eyes. This mans heart is so full of condemnation for those who 'he' determines are wrong. Mark have you seen that you are picking up this same spirit from this man according to this 'false prophet' stuff? Stephen hit the nail on the head Mark wether you like it or not. I will say it again brother....Stephen hit the nail on the head wether you accept it or not. A few months back we all participated in a posting on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You participated and was like 'wow' in a way to a reality we all needed to see. Why are you not a doer brother??? Only those who are doers of the word Mark. You recieve the revelation but then continue in your own direction and own mindset and participate with others who also have this so called condemnation of other ministers of the Lord who fall. Mark...how far are you from falling my friend? You need to seriously examine this as much as I have had to over the last 3 years of participating here brother. I fell my friend and had to repent and God lifted me back up into His power and authority. But this can not happen as long as we are participating in blasphemy wich you are doing like it or not. Brother, you keep this up, you will also fall my friend. Wether its visible on this web page is irrelevant my friend. I dont have to say mark my words because its not my words. If you had a relationship with the Holy Spirit you wouldnt be crucifying Him. Thats the simple reality. Mark, you are fullifilling the whole book of Jude in the negative my friend with those who bring accusations against God's ministers. Even the angels would not dare bring an accusation against Moses even though his sin was blatently obvious. His sin was out in the open brother. All could see it. If any one had the right to talk about that sin it would have been those who witnessed it correct? But yet we see no record of this at all. Infact we see that the angels dared not say anything at all. Why? Because this accusation crap only comes from satan brother. Why would God's ministers participate in this? If they do its blasphemy Mark. You sit here and condemn this man pastor Joh and SAY he is a false prophet and delete what you said you believe is a true word from the lord but yet you dont edit this false condemnation garbage that this penultimate times guy brought forth?????? Dude, you are blowing in the wind. Are you giving more credit to this pennultimate times guy by default, a man who preaches condemnation about the sabbath on this web site but yet you destroy a man who has a proven trac record since 1984??? Mark what you are doing is placing yourself along side of Soddom and Gomorah wether you like it or not. Read Jude brother. It says that those who bring accusations against other ministers of the Lord have placed themselves under judgement. Then he also compares those who place a word of judgement on God's ministers are comparable or the same as all the sexual wickedness that roams this earth and every ditestable sin there is. Thats not our words. This is Jude speaking. Do you understand that Jude is strickly refering to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by believers wich is exactly the topic we went over a few months ago? Mark I am going to have to be blunt here for once and may God forgive me if I am stepping out of my bounds. It says to not let many of us become teachers. See most think its just a reference to the spiritual gift of teaching others doctrine and so on and so forth. Thats not what it is even though that is partially included. It talking about those who have progressed in the faith enough that others are looking up to them by example. Mark have you recieved condemnation to then go and teach it brother when it comes to others of the faith??? Stephen was dead on accurate here. He said its fear that is running you. You fear the Lord but yet have not progressed in love brother. When love progresses the fear subsides because we are no longer under judgement. Granted there is a level of fear to never lose. But fear is only the foundation my friend. That is not the end result. Its supposed to be such a love that it consumes, not lays out judgement. It says love covers a multitude of sins. You teach repentance repentance repentance and that is good, and you are teaching repentance to a level of those who are below you to come up to your level. That is fine and very good. But the problem here is that you have not progessed passed this repentance into power and you start to condemn those who have anything that is a hint of mistakes here. But yet you refuse to say anything about Andrew Strom???? I would never follow this man until he changes his heart to mercy. He is not a peaceful man at all. His heart is not peaceful. He is being tormented. You have this so called 'discernment' about those you want to label 'false prophets' but yet you dont have the simple discernment to pick up false condemnation and false humility? In Acts chapter 19 its written about the 7 sons of sceva and what they did in casting out demons, or at least trying to cast out demons with the "Jesus whom Paul preaches" and they got their buts kicked. Do you see any difference here in what you are doing my friend? You are following this Jesus whom Andrew Strom preaches and you are about to get your butt kicked like the 7 sons of sceva did but not through lack of relationship of Jesus, but the lack of relationship with the holy Spirit wich is because of blasphemy. "Do you want proof" as this are the words that you spoke to Stephen? What topics brother are the ones you post on my friend. I am talking about what you put forth as a majority of topics. Lets see, we have Andrew Strom.... Andrew Strom and more Andrew Strom and occationally you put your postings about false prophets and these so called false ministers out there. Now maybe I didnt say that in the right light Mark, but I hope you will at least annalys what I am saying here and quit trying to find scripture to justify your actions. You are in dissobedience Mark. You have put up so much stuff when it comes to this lakeland revival stuff and its gone way way out into examining others as if they also sinned beyond repair and are judging them adding to their "their chains" as Paul also adresses this issue. I am admitting there was sin in the camp, but you continue to just beat this horse thats been shot over a hundred times now in the last year and a half in following this Andrew Strom guy. Its caused so much division and strife but you continue to put it up there as a posting but yet claiming unity. You are bringing accusation after accusation and division and you cant even forgive those people who messed up, but yet you have absolutely no problem with jumping on this bandwagon of division here because of blasphemy??? You keep "exposing" their nakedness for all to see. As if we like looking up underneath the robes of righteousness to see the filth that exists in all of us. Like Stephen said, you need to examine this 'relationship' you have with Andrew Strom. You are progressing no further Mark. Cant you see this? You are stuck at the yellow light. There is some point brother that you are supposed to dive into the power of the Holy Spirit for yourself instead of always being a follower of others. This is exactly what the sin of the 7 sons of sceva was. They were followers of Christ brother. Read it. They believed in Christ. They werent the typical Jewish pharasees who rejected Him completely. They were just guilty of not progressing in the power of the Holy Spirit and completely unwilling to accept this because of pride. There is a point my friend where this 'Jesus' who is our Saviour just beomes power inside of you that just comes exploding outward. Than this Jesus becomes more than just the jesus of the version who Andrew Strom preaches. Do you get what I am saying Mark? It takes humility to actually admit that there is no power in the words you are saying here nor the words of Andrew even though he may have some good points. I have had to do this exact same thing...admit and then repent. If this 'jesus' who Andrew Strom preaches is the real deal, are there testimonies with constantly encountering the Lord's manifest presence every day in your own home Mark? His presence, not His mercy Mark. What about in the streets? What about at work? His presence should be consuming you brother and this kind of consuming never ever focusses on others at all. Not even one hint of it. You need to understand this. This encountering of His manifest presence flows out to others. Are your kids being slammed by the presence of the Holy Spirit? Encountering His loving presence, its never in judgement....actually very very rairly. Mark....look at the 'food' you are presenting here. Are your personal testimonies bringing edification to those who need to find Christ? Are they bringing edification to those who are in the body right now? Its the love of God that brings people to repentance, not warning of the false stuff. If you are busy warning of the false stuff thats going on everywhere, the simple reality is you are not abiding in His presence and love and cant give out the real deal because you are distracted. How do we combat lies and failures in the body? Live the real thing with power, not words. That means testimony. Encoutering His presence should be all the time. There should be testimony of this. However Mark I am going to say something here, look at the time spent running this web site. Its been going on 3 years now. Me, Stephen and a few others have been here since the beggining. Have you gotten one step closer to the consuming power of God? I mean this power that casts out demons. This power that speaks in other tongues. This power that heals the sick and binds up the broken hearted (Isaiah 61)? This power in abundance of His manifest presence for others? If not, you need to number one examine what you are striving for first off. If you are not striving for this power, after 3 years or more and recieving, then there is a factor of dissobedience my friend. Jesus said these signs will follow those who believe...last chapter of the book of mark. This was not a request by Jesus to His apostles. It is a reality of what is commanded to happen wether we like it or not. That is the standard we are to go for. This is who Jesus is. It can not be seperated. #2, if you are striving for this, than you need to start examining those who you hang around with in the body. Those who you go to for in depth revelation and wisdom and advice who are called godly people. Those who you look up to. Those who pass off a little poison here and there by a subtle lack of faith in His manifest presence now that prevents you from recieving this power and sets you back when we are commanded to recieve. I'm talking those who would hold you back from running into the manifest power at full speed. #3, what is your church teaching and preaching? Are you encountering the Lord's manifest presence there every time you go? Not just repentance. Are you seeing groups of people who do exactly what Jesus commanded...casting out demons, healing the sick, words of prophecy that edify others in their time of need? If not...you need to get the heck out of their my friend and stop hanging out with dead men! You become that exact spiritual deadness that you associate with. Brother, I hate to say this but Andrew Strom is not alive my friend and those who are trully alive can see this with their eyes closed and their hearts open. Is he far from being made alive? No he's not. However I will say this, he needs to repent just as much as any other minister out there who has fallen into sexual sins and abuse in any form. God can work with those who are fallen and broken and confess and admit it before Him and men. Look at the apostle Peter. However God will refuse to use those who will not confess there shortfalls and this includes judging others in the body and labelling them. Its blasphemy and nothing but. Andrew better repent or he is about to see a whole new generation of holy warriors pass him by again. How many times does this have to happen to the same man before he gets it? Its so predicatable now with this man but yet he goes out and says he is alive. Why is he not running with the mighty pack of warriors after all these years? He is a one man show for the most part here even though he 'participates' with others on occation. Its a 'me and Jesus' syndrom. Why is he not running with those in the body consistantly? Hummm. Ok Mark...on a side note here. This is more of a personal issue. I am at a point now where I see the spiritual contamination going on around me and I have had to seriously examine who I hang around with and participate with. I have worked too hard for the power and annointing of God on my life to just throw it away because I am participating under others who refuse to accept or even see certain aspects of spiritual sins. Any ministry I participate in, I am under their spiritual authority including you as well. You are basically put in the postion of apostle here wether you see it that way or not. I know my spiritual giftings and assignments and they are to be used underneath the spiritual authroity that resides over me. This means I am in submission to them. However if those who are in a place of spiritual authority over me who are wrong do not correct themselves, than I am to move on because like it or not, those who are in spiritual authority control the outpouring of the Holy Spirit to those who are below them. This is an established rule in the kingdom of God brother. First apostles, then prophets, then teachers and preachers and gifts of healings and tongues and so on and so forth. Its called submission to the goverment of God for His divine flow of His presence. It always starts at the top and it flows out downward. This is biblical. The body is to be submissive one to another but its also supposed to submit to the proper spiritual giftings and spiritual positions simultaniously. Thats the laws of the kingdom. So what I am getting at here is if the direction of this condemnation stuff does not change, I will be leaving. This has been something God has placed on my heart for a while now. I am not just going to up and jump. This is what God has been speeking to me now for 2 months. The anger that comes out of me when others who are in the body are labelled, thats not of me my friend and its taken me a long time to realise this. Its the holy anger of God because of blasphemy. How can I say this? I used to be a blasphemer as a believer. God pounded me hard and through and through to teach me not to double speek. Cant have good and bad coming out of the same body or mouth(temple). I never used to have this anger at all when I would hear others speak bad about others in the same body. Infact I used to join in because of thier sin issues that were so obvious as the sins of Moses before the congregation. I was one of these 'exposers'. I was wrong and I confess this before all with nothing to hide and admit to my wrong doing. My heart was wrong before almighty God and I repented because I finally understood the love He had for me as a sinner and it just totally blew my mind and still does. I love to post serious meat here on this web site. Sunday I had 3 powerful topics to post that hit me, but when I read that anti pastor Joh stuff, the anger of the Spirit came forth and again I had to look at what I am submitting to under spiritual authority. If this keeps up, I will no longer be in submission to this web site. I will go where the Holy Spirit is not being quenched. I now refuse to participate with those who are leaders who blaspheme others in the body. Its that simple and has become the law for me and this is submission to the laws of the Holy Spirit. I am a no one. I will never be a one man show and am not lifting myself up so that others have to be in submission to my words. Thats not it. But I am however saying this, those who have the serious meat of the word will not participate in whats going on brother. This blasphemy has to stop. You are the only one who can make this happen. You are far enough along in Christ to recieve this revelation. Its now up to you to chose this path and repent. If there is repentance, there will be restoration and you will absolutely blow away the annointing that Andrew professes. I am absolutely confident of this. If not, you personally will progress no further and your web site will be nothing more than just end times studies and constant confusion with absolutely no power just like many multiples of web sites out there. You may have a few people who post some good stuff here and there, but they will not be as straight forward to you as I am being right now. They just wont post again. Its time to stop Mark. There are 2 witnesses coming to you with this accusation my friend. This is the biblical process. 2 witnesses that have participated with you since the beggining. I do not like to have all of this posted in the public eye. I hate it, However it has become a public problem and has to be dealt with publiclly. I am not giving you an ultimatum here. I am just telling you the direction I must go based on what occurs. I love you brother but I can not continue in the same blasphemous stuff and even getting worse and deeper and deeper in it. I do not know where Stephen stands in his position here and am not speeking for him at all. We havent even discussed much of this at all. However this accusation is now being brought to you by 2 people as a testifying who have been with you since the beggining. You can do with it what you wish brother. Forgive me for such a long posting and so many words. I am not trying to overwhelm you nor waste your time. However I will say this, I will not be wasting the annointing that God is pouring on me. "He will only give what we are willing to jealously gaurd" refering to the annointing of the Holy Spirt. This was the wise words of a man who also recieved a false condemnation by you and Andrew brother. There couldnt have been more wisdom than those words. Last Edited By: Nathan Feb 16 10 8:38 AM. Edited 8 times.
aaron		#6	[-]
Posts: 6 Feb 16 10 8:44 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	1 Cor 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Tim 4:2 [NIV] Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. 1 Cor 14:32 - The spirit of the prohets are subject to the prophets, meaning they are to be tested. Even a belliever himself is to test his own word before he speaks it. 1 John 4:1 - We as believers are to test all things. The word of God is pretty clear that many, many false prophets will arise. You are IGNORANT if you automaticly recieve a word of prophecy or a spirtiual experiance without testing it! 2 Tim 4:2- Here we go how do we test, WE TEST BY THE STANDARD THE WORD OF GOD HAS LAID OUT FOR US. Jesus is called the WORD, the Holy Spirit came to exault Jesus. The Holy Spirit will never condridict the written WORD. I find it rather ironic that Mark is being attacked, or questioned or told to examine his motives. Have you guys ever considered that Mark is operating in the Gift of Discernment? You know one of the 9 gifts listed in Cor chapter 12. If this is the case and this is Mark's gift wouldnt you be guilty of the same sin that you accuse others of, which is blasphmey of the Holy Spirit? The same could be said of Mr. Strom also, I have read more than once that he is blasphming the Holy Spirit on this message board. Mark and Mr. Strom are simply following the standard set out by the word of GOD by testing the Spirits and correcting and rebuking when it is needed. If you had a friend who was playing russian ruolette would you sit there and just watch or would you attemt to stop them. To know the right thing to do and then not do it is listed as sin, I believe in the book of James. False prophets operate under demonic spirits, plain and simple and to not warn the body of them is just out right wrong! As far as the kuldni spirit or what ever its called, why is the testimony of the brethen who were delivered from it being ignored on this board. The fruit of the spirit is self- control, we are commanded to be sober minded at all times. This is straight from the bible so if you want to argue about it, then go argue with GOD. Sorry the WORD of GOD does not show believers acting like those who are under this kuldni spirit, wont find it, its not there. Test the Spirits my friend, the enemy likes to be spiritual too. My intentions were not to hate, or fight or argue. Sorry if I come off that way. GOD Bless brothers.
Nathan		#7	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 16 10 9:08 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Aaron... I will also ask you the same thing brother. Is your life consumed by the power of the Holy Spirit? Are you so consumed by the presence of God in your life that you will do whatever the cost to eliminate anything that might just grieve the power of God from flowing from you into others to bring them to the gospel? Do you have this insane drive to serve the Lord with all power and authority and all righteousness that is exactly what the apostles did after they were corrected and corrected again and again? Is this manifest power also coming forth in your life that goes way beyond repentance my friend? I think its kind of ironic that you private email me with a rebuke a few weeks back and never respond back and then privately wait for another opportunity to voice your dissagreement. If so, are the standards I just listed out for you the strive that is ruling your life in a freedom after the crucifixion into the ressurection my friend? I have no problem with dissagreements my friend. However if we are dissagreeing on things, the only thing that going to put it to rest is the manifest power of the Holy Spirit. So my friend, like it or not, you are at the same subjection to this law of the Holy Spirit. So the question also stands for you since you are weighing into something that should be private but its not based on how the circumstances came about. So now its time to answer the drive in your life as well. Its not about are we just 'saved'. Its about how much satan really knows our names in hell as the destroyers of his kingdom. When we step into eternity and we sit at the marriage supper of the lamb surrounded by children who were martyrs and the apostles who were killed for their faith, are you also going to be known by them with a testimony of power or will you cower when you see their faces and see the troubles they went through? We are so filled with a mchurch that has absolutely no power anymore and its time to either change and confess or face the simple realities of judgement for being dissobedient. So is it blasphemy for you also my friend? What will be the rewards that you will tast of? Hey... I'm not intentionally trying to be harsh here, but you got yourself into this mess not knowing the beggining from the end. Actually I comment for the reason of response from Mark. Is it for the purpose of contention? No way! However contentions do arise from time to time and the trash has to be dealt with. Look at the words of Stephen here, he has not been a fighter in the past. He is a man of calm spirit and stable and a true representation of godliness. You are now jumping on his so called discernemnt Aaron? It says to not bring an accusation without the witness of 2 or three. This is exactly what is occuring and trully I dont care a rats rear end right now what side you stand on. Ill be right up front with you right now. There is a time for peace and a time for war. This stinkin blasphemy either has to be dealt with or we part ways and things will continue on either way. Call it the contention that was established between Paul and Barnabus. Whatever. Its trully something that has to run its coarse and now is the time. I am prepairing for battle. Not for battle against the bretheren as you seem to be emplying here as if this is a false accusation. Its either true or its has no basis to even be mentioned. I dont care about the scriptures that you mention. We have all dwealt in these for years and know without a doubt that this is the godly process. We know this. What we are talking about is not discerning the Lords body here my friend. I dont know, maybe I'm not your friend either. Either way, what was said needs to be said and I am awaiting a responce from Mark and I believe maybe Stephen also is. I have no clue what Stephen may be telling him. except for the fact he is wrong. However I am waiting for a godly decision for direction and am not ashamed to say so. You can vent or say what you want for scriptures. Thats fine. It has no bearing in the process over the last 3 years we have participated together. Call this lack of humility or even anger. Absolutely!!! Am I going to be humble with facing a descision thats based on the demonic activity coming out of peoples mouths? No way. So you can take it or leave it really. Maybe I am to come across with being more humble. Not sure. But the paddle has to swing on occation. Many times its me getting this paddle on the backside and I can readily admit this. This time I refuse to do things thats going to bring about another beating. Last Edited By: Nathan Feb 16 10 12:51 PM. Edited 2 times.
Nathan		#8	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 16 10 10:06 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Aaron... You are correct on discernment here for sure. Ok... that you are right on with when it comes to sin. However what you have stated is an accusation of lack of discernment on our parts when this is way beyond discernment. Here is why. Discernment is an issue of wether you follow some one or not based on what God is speaking to you at the time. Thats is totally biblical and everyone has different giftings. Everyone has the discernment of sin brother who has been born again. So to accuse this is just outright dumb. Look back at whats been written. Its not anyone ever refusing to admit the sin that has occured. That is not even this issue. The issue is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in the life of another believer regardless of wether they are right or wrong. That is this issue that needs to be adressed. Go back and look over the years of this web site my friend and you will see. The issue of blasphemy needs to be adressed. Read back over the concerns that have been brought here by Stephen and me. Is it based on anything but blasphemy??? No its not. Read it again. This is why I commented will it be blasphemy for you also? This is not commenting based on outright anger or even lack of humility. Its based on right and wrong in the life of a believer as far as blasphemy. See we all have the right to say "I am not going to follow this ministry" and that is proper. However when you step past your bounderies and then start to label someone as a 'false prophet'???? Dude, that is blasphemy and nothing but. So here we go, are we now again stooping to the level of satan by accusing everyone we dont agree with or think that because a word does not resonate with us they are by default a false prophet? That is not biblical and I dont care how much fruit you want to claim you are annalysing here. That is not what a fruit inspector is for brother. We are not given the right to call people false prophets just because Jesus warned of them coming in the last days. He just told us to beware of them. So again, we are only back to the issue at hand wich is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in the life of other believers. Thats it. Not this issue of discernment you are adressing. Go back and read brother and you will see the revelation of the topic "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit we took part in. Then come back with more questions here. This blasphemy of the Holy Spirit we are discussing can only be done by believers. Thats it. No other way. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit http://endtimes.yuku.com/topic/836 You may not agree with my views, but you cant argue with revelation that is confirmed by the written word as well as the spoken word of the Holy Spirit. There are trully many aspects of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. There are even more involving quenching the Holy Spirit. I am not talking about ultimate blasphemy by rejecting the gospel. That is only done by unbelievers. I am talking about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit wich can not be done without knowledge of the Holy Spirit, or at least partial knowledge of the Holy Spirit. So you may want to read this thread and then re-read whats been spoken on this current thread and then tell us again its issues with lack of discernemnt regarding sin. Really what you have done is jumped in halfway here brother. The only discernement right now is realising that 'fals prophet' regarding the humble of the earth has just taken the name of our precious Holy Spirit in a way of personal condemnation and used His name in vain. That is all this is about. Its discernment on repenting and being obedient to what is the proper way to treat others who we dont follow or even maybe think is destructive. I will never bring an accusation against Andrew Strom. Do I agree with his ministry? No I dont and I am content to leave it at that. I am not going to 'expose' him.
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aaron		#9	[-]
Posts: 6 Feb 16 10 10:09 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	nathan, Every thing you posted about the power of the Holy Spirit is fine and dandy, and it is a really good word. But what about you Nathan have you examined yourself, are you the only christian who hears from God? Why is it ok for you to judge Mark and Mr. Strom but its not ok for them to judge the teachings of so called prophets? And don't say your not judging them, because you are brother. You out right accussed Mr. Strom of blasphmy. When you could be very well guilty of the same thing, you see my point. I dont even follow Mr. Strom, I read his emails from time to time but thats it bro. Im just pointing out the double standard you use. Sorry to be harsh but it is what it is. As far as your comment on the "discernment bandwagon" YES Im on that bandwagon, why wouldn't I be? Its a command from scripture, why do you mock it? Nathan you said "There is a time for peace and a time for war. This stinkin blasphemy either has to be dealt with or we part ways and things will continue on either way. Call it the contention that was established between Paul and Barnabus. Whatever. Its trully something that has to run its coarse and now is the time. I am prepairing for battle. Not for battle against the bretheren as you seem to be emplying here as if this is a false accusation" Im not implying nothing my friend, you are. Don't you realize that by accusing someone of blasphmy you are declaring them the enemy. I'm just simply pointing it out. You have called Mr. Strom the enemy by calling him a blasimphier, just like Jesus did to the pharisees. Of course Jesus was correct in his dealing with the pharisees. My email to you has nothing to do with this topic. I didnt respond to you because their was no point. You saw it differnt then I, so be it, I wasn't going to try to argue with you to change your mind. And Im sorry if you thought I was rebuking you. I could of easly posted that instead of sending it to you, but out of respect for you and me not knowing your intentions I sent it private. Didn't want to give the apperance that I was tearing you down. If I remeber correctly I specficly stated that I wasnt sure if your intentions were what I thought they were, hence the email to you. Im not venting bro, just pointing out what I see. Funny I thought this was a public message board. If you dont want me to post here just say the word and I'll leave peacfully. Also how can you say that the WORD of GOD has no barring, or maybe I just misunderstood you. So are you saying that I have demonic activity coming out of my mouth? Forgive me for intruding on your guys conversation, but I feel like Mark does a good job about what he post and what he doesnt. Im not trying to put a wedge between you guys, thats not my intention. Nathan I posted this before you posted your second reply to my original post. Last Edited By: aaron Feb 16 10 10:14 AM. Edited 1 times.
Nathan		#10	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 16 10 11:21 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Aaron..,. Do you know what blasphemy is brother? I could not say what I am saying here if I have not bean dealt with this specific issue correct? So for me to come out and say this like I am saying it, and who ever for that matter says it, its been an issue that heas been dealt to them with a stern warning. You my friend have either been not dealt this serious issue or you are chosing to ignore it correct? It has to be one or the other. Enough games of distraction. Maybe you should sit and wait out the descision here that I am asking for. I m not about being in anyones face. It may be that this is considered offensive to you right now. Sorry if thats the way it appears as my intent is not to offend. I have no problem with who participates my friend. Its not up to me. So for now these disrtractions are ending for me with these words of twisting. I am politely putting you on ignore in the "more" options of this message board under your name until this issue is resovlved. Its not I dont want to hear from you, and its deffinately not about not wanting you to participate but this issue is a serious issue and until things have been answered in order according to whats been asked and resolved, you will politely be on the ignore list. After that, whatever the decision is, I hope there will be restoration because we are brtheren. Mark... I am politely asking for an answer here. Are you believing that you have blasphemed according to what the written word has told us In the posting we all participated in a few months ago? I am not looking for contention in this issue. However it is an issue that is chosing the path I will walk. So with what we discussed here in the past Mark, is this an issue that has merit that both I and Stephen have mentioned or is this a non issue to you with bringing up names for 'labelling'? I am not asking are you justified for doing such. I want to know if this is considered as passing beyond your authority and stepping into the arena of blasphemy? If so, the admitance with I have no problem with. I have no problem with admitance and correction at all. After all this is what the life of the believer is. So Mark I really dont care where others stand in their point of view here with this issue. You are the spiritual head here and right now I need your input, not theirs. To me their view is irrelevant. I am asking you personally here. Is Stephen? I dont really know. All I know is he also does not agree with the tactic. So for me, I need an answer from you brother. That is really all I am requesting. Last Edited By: Nathan Feb 16 10 11:44 AM. Edited 3 times.
Nathan		#11	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 16 10 12:14 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Stoning of Stephen... Hey brother, I dont know where you stand on this issue totally in regards to what is being spoken. So if I have brought up your name in an inapropriate way on this topic, please forgive me.
aaron	Reply	#12	[-]
Posts: 6 Feb 16 10 12:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	So you choose to ignore me. Wow, thanks. Im not mad or offended. Why would I be? Any way yes I know what blasphmey is. Why do you have to go to the extreme. I've delt with you before, in regards to the whole Lakeland event in 08. You felt it was a move of GOD and I didn't. We didnt agree, but you got so upset (for reasons unknown to me) that you deleted your profile. My username at that time was aburgos. I dont understand why you think Im the enemy bro. We've even contented together when Philly (remeber that dude, I miss his post) tried to push his calvinastic doctrine on this site. Here is all Im trying to point out to you Nathan, (if you can even read this). You accuse Mr. Strom of blashmy because he calls certain ministries or people false prophets who operate under demonic spirits. But you feel like the spirits are of God and thus you accuse him of blasphemy for giving credit to Satan what you feel is actualy the Holy Spirit. Correct? Ok, but don't you see, if your wrong your guilty of the same thing that you accuse Mr. Strom of. Please correct me if Im wrong, I dont wish to twist your words Nathan. But thats how I see it. Or are you talking about your guys interpertation of blasphmey that you posted about. No disrespect bro but just cuz you guys came up with that interpation does not make it a fundmental doctrine. Anyways GOD Bless Nathan.
Nathan		#13	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 16 10 1:02 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Aaron... God bless you brother. There are inns and outs on this whole ordeal and there are still serious lessons involved here. Look there are both sides to this equation with revelation. If my responce is viewed as extreme, what can I say. If I am wrong God will certainly deal with me for sure. You may not aprove of my views. I have no beafs in that. I dont have beafs in Mark dissagreeing either. Its not about that at all brother. However, I know the instruction I am to go in and I am waiting for a responce that does determine wether I stay or go. Hay my life has always been full of extremes. Extreme rebellion, Extreme blasphemy to not responding to the voice of the Holy Spirit for a long time. Extremes that right now its not relevant to explain even though I will openly declair those bad extremes I am no longer participating in the were even illegal. So brother, these extremes in life, when you live in a life style of extreme sin and have now been delivered of that junk, it now becomes the absolute opposite extreme of going for the gold running the race to win correct? This is the extreme I am now striving in wether others see it that way or not. Extreme obedience, extreme conviction of the trash in my life that still needs to be fixed, extreme chasing the annointing of God to deliver others who have gone through the same extremes I have before being born again. Life for me is nothing but extremes. Thats quite obvious to those who know me. However I will not enter into condemnation at all. No way. I will not enter into condemnation of others in sin. So brother, you may still not aprove of what I have said and thats fine. As I said, there may be a kiss and make up session for me. Right now that is something I am willing to risk to be obedient with what the Lord is instructing of me. So is this the wrong way to approach it? Could be. If so asking for forgiveness is due correct? I have no problem with doing that at all. So Aaron, we share common things past here in this web site and that is great. Maybe some good and maybe some bad. Welcome back brother. There is still a common unity of salvation here, but that does not make it a common direction. Know what I mean? I dont say this to talk about others walks at all. So Maybe I should wait before commenting any more on this thread until I hear from Mark as this really is the only reason I even commented. Things come, things go. People come and people go. I just may be part of that process. Thats really all that it amounts to. Its just a walk I have to walk. By the way, I did click on your post to read it as it would not be visible other wise. As I said, I may have to kiss and make up here and if thats really what I have to do than I will certainly do it for sure as I do not want to fall into condemnation because of dissobedience either. Last Edited By: Nathan Feb 16 10 1:20 PM. Edited 1 times.
MarkLwrnc		#14	[-]
Posts: 1898 Feb 16 10 3:40 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey Nathan, Christ said that you will know them by their fruit... Just watching the way that this discussion is unfolding shows to me one-sided aggression. Shouldn't there be a loving discussion between believers, and when there be disagreements, a desire to take these topics to God in prayer, as well as compare to Scripture? When I take these things to Scripture, however, I'm being ignored and shouted down, followed by a very long post of what sounds like ranting. This is the truth, as I see this discussion, spoken in love. When Christians aren't concerned about the Bible's numerous warnings regarding false prophets that is also a concern. You quickly and abruptly write these warnings off, and then go into a very long rant. I hope that you will consider the Scripture that Aaron kindly posted above. At this point -- if you believe the Scripture -- surely you would have a lot less aggression, and understanding that we are simply trying to take these Scriptures to heart? With that in mind, I would encourage you to simply agree to disagree here... No matter how angry you get, you're not going to change my opinion here. I will continue to love God, serve God, and uphold the truth as I see it, even if I stand alone, only with Jesus by my side. Even if you don't agree, that is what I believe. I say this with care and am not trying to convice you to change your beliefs. Only the Holy Spirit can change our hearts, if we're submitting to His Will, and seeking Him for the answers. Regarding Joh. W. Matutis, We are still faced with the same prophecy that Joh. W. Matutis received, claiming that God told him that the swine flu vaccine was a cover for demonic injections. Perhaps Joh. W. Matutis has received true Words from God in the past. However, in this instance, I believe that he was deceived by Satan, and Joh. W. Matutis released a false prophecy. In this instance, I believe that Joh. W. Matutis failed to "test everything". He was deceived, just as the true prophet was deceived by the false prophet in 1 Kings 13:11-25. Nathan, please take the time to read this passage, so that you can see the precedent set in the Word, which tells us that "these things were written down to serve as examples". At this point, until God tells me otherwise, for this reason I choose to not post any more prophecy from Joh. W. Matutis. I have nothing else to say in condemnation of him. I don't know his character. I don't know what kind of shepherd / pastor he is or what he's teaching. All I know about him are emails I've received. Please accept this and agree to disagree. It makes no sense for you to remain on this discussion board, if you're going to aggressively attack other believers. Where is the truth spoken in love, when you do that? If you can speak the truth in love, please stay. You've had some encouraging thins to say in the past and I appreciate your zeal for the Lord. I just ask you not to be reckless and attack other believers on this message board. Love in Christ,
Nathan		#15	[-]
Posts: 1031 Feb 16 10 3:42 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey Mark... Hey brother please dont respond to this postings. There is a reason.
MarkLwrnc		#16	[-]
Posts: 1898 Feb 16 10 3:44 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey Aaron, thank you for posting the Scriptures you posted. Please stand with me in prayer here, that God would reveal the truth of the matter, and that all of us would remain strong in God's love, reflected in patience and compassion. Please don't feel as though you're not wanted here. I'm the admin of this board, and I thank you for the patience and humility you demonstrate in your posts. I hope that Nathan and Stephen can simply agree to disagree on the subject, with love and understanding that all of us love the Lord, fear his word, and are strong in our convictions -- all praise to God. God bless!
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